Fibre glass topped Canal Boats.

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Chris Houston

2004-10-06 14:39:05 UTC

Hi,

I am just looking to buy a canal boat, that has a steel hull, but a
fibreglass sides and roof, I have
been told that this is not really a problem, other than you obviously cannot
jump onto it from a lock top,
like you can a steel roof.

Apart from that, what else should I look out for when buying it?

It was made by G M Engineering if anyone has any experience with boats made
by them that would
probably be useful too :)

Thanks in advance,

Chris

Dave Mayall

2004-10-06 15:30:06 UTC

Permalink

A different boat.

You may have been told it isn't a problem. In reality, it will be a problem,
and you'll spend the rest of your days dealing with leaks at the interface.

martin

2004-10-06 15:54:34 UTC

Permalink

On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:30:06 +0100, "Dave Mayall"

Post by Dave Mayall

A different boat.
You may have been told it isn't a problem. In reality, it will be a problem,
and you'll spend the rest of your days dealing with leaks at the interface.

Yes! Never buy a boat where the top is made out of a different
material from the hull.

--
Martin

Allan Jones

2004-10-06 17:26:43 UTC

Permalink

Post by Chris Houston
Hi,
I am just looking to buy a canal boat, that has a steel hull, but a
fibreglass sides and roof, I have
been told that this is not really a problem, other than you obviously cannot
jump onto it from a lock top,
like you can a steel roof.
Apart from that, what else should I look out for when buying it?
It was made by G M Engineering if anyone has any experience with boats made
by them that would
probably be useful too :)
Thanks in advance,
Chris

I had one about 15 years ago, which had been built by Harborough Marine in
the late 60's, so I can speak from personal experience. It will almost
certainly leak water whenever it rains, where the top meets the hull;
usually rain penetrates the fibreglass down one of the attachment screws,
then travels between the fibreglass and the steel until it finds an outlet
into the boat. The water is likely to travel several feet from the actual
leak before it drips inside the boat - I tracked the leak once to a point
more than 15 feet from the drips! As well as the attachment screws from the
top to the hull, there are also the screws that hold the windows, the bands
where fibreglass sections meet, the places where the handrails are attached,
etc etc (and all with different rates of thermal expansion), as well as any
cracks caused by damage. Also the water will run in underneath the
fibreglass at the gunwales and appear again somewhere else inside; the steel
will be slightly rusty there by now, so there is almost no chance of ever
sealing the join properly (mastic won't stick to rust). I sealed most of the
leaks, but never all of them, and people in the marina where I used to moor,
reckoned they didn't recognise me if I wasn't carrying a mastic gun.
Whenever it rained, my wife and I would immediately get all the saucepans
out of the kitchen and line them up under the places where we knew it would
drip.

We were lucky in that the top of ours was made from a half-inch thick
sandwich of 2 fibreglass layers with a foam filling; this was quite warm in
winter (much warmer than a sheet of steel, and we never had any condensation
problems) but of course that also meant that water could travel for long
distances before emerging, so that leaks were even more difficult to trace.
But many boats were built with just a single layer of fibreglass; and unless
they have considerable extra insulation inside, they were usually absolutely
freezing in winter.

BUT the price I paid for the boat reflected these facts. I loved that boat,
I kept her for 5 years before selling her for a good profit, I travelled all
over the country in her, and never for one second did I or my family ever
regret buying "Thistle" (despite her chequered history, during which she was
first registered as a ship, then recorded at Lloyds as "sunk without trace
near Llangollen", eventually sunk on the Ashby and registered as a 45-seater
restaurant, re-floated to be cut in half and lengthened to the wrong length
and not quite straight, and so on ...). I wonder where she is now ???

--
Allan Jones - N/B 'Keeping Up'
(for direct reply check the spelling of my first name)

Richard Lucas

2004-10-06 19:10:27 UTC

Permalink

Jemima D is built like this. You do not want to buy a fibreglass topped
boat - it will leak. Not being able to stand on the roof is a major
disadvantage, especially if you plan to singlehand the boat.

Look for an all-steel boat.

--
Richard
http://www.jemima-d.org.uk/

Brian Rich

2004-10-07 23:14:22 UTC

Permalink

We have a 34 foot narrowboat 'Otter', with a fibreglass roof - built about
1970 probably Swan Line or Dart Line - and has a sandwich construction
similar to Allan's boat. We had a surveyor look at Otter before we purchased
her, so we felt we knew all the warts as well as the fine lines of the hull.
We bought her last year, so our first winter was a bit scary. Yep, it
leaked, but much less now since we refitted new wooden handrails on the roof
so the screwholes and joint are in compression rather than tension, which
really improved the situation. Anything that you can do to close holes up in
this way will probably help, especially with the help of a modern sealant.
I expect that we will get some ingress over next winter through the joint
between the hull and the roof, but my plan of action is to treat it like my
bath.. Expect it to leak at the joints, so rake out the joint on a regular
basis and reinject a sealant between the steel and the fibreglass to
minimise the leaks, mop up anything that escapes, and keep a check on the
bilges. Like Allan says, always have a mastic gun on board. A can of
Hammerite wouldn't go amiss either, as long as your aren't into pristine
paintwork.

The price we paid reflects the problem, and with a boat of this age, it
doesn't really make sense to consider replacing the roof, so we are just
cruisin' and enjoying the experience. I am contemplating adding some
additional bracing to the roof to allow the possibility of walking on it,
but realistically this will be a creative fitting job and not something you
can knock together in a few minutes. This comes third on the list after
sorting out the basics (gas lockers, electrics, etc) now largely completed
and an internal refit perhaps next year to get us from the 1970's to the
21st century - but I have to say that she works very well as she is.

Otter has been perfectly dry this summer, even with all the rain we have
had - let's not talk about the leak in the plumbing though which is nothing
to do with the fibreglass roof! We ASSUME that she may leak a bit this
winter so will pay her regular visits to check her out, and just lay her up
accordingly with lots of ventilation.We didn't buy her to live aboard, so
being dry all the time wasn't an issue for us. She doesn't have any heating
but is still very warm; other narrowboat friends who have steel-topped
cabins have commented on this.

If the price is sensible - we paid about £140 per foot and anticipate having
to spend half as much again to make her comfortable - and your surveyor says
the boat is canal worthy and she has a few years on her BSSC, I'd go for it
as long as you feel confident to do most of the maintenance yourself.

Brian Rich
NB Otter
Tardebigge Old Wharf

Chris Houston

2004-10-08 09:14:53 UTC

Permalink

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your message, after chatting with other friends, and having a
second email from Allan I decided to go for it. Like you I am not intending
to live onboard her, and am prepared to fix a few leaks here and there.

If you'd like to see the photos of her in her current state, I have put
together a web blog which you can find at:

http://narrowboat.blogspot.com/

The chap selling her wanted £15.5k but I offer £11k which is more like £157
/ foot as she's a 70'er.

I am going to be spending another £3.5k on having all the major work done on
her, i.e.:

-) a complete rub down and repaint
-) new chimney's for the stoves ( one is rusting at the top, a definate leak
point )
-) replace part of the rudder, as it's rotten through.
-) replace the back doors
-) a few minor bits on the inside

My view was having all of that done would bring her back up to a reasonable
standard, and I would then be happy to start the journey to bring her down
from Goole to Theale ( near Reading ) on the Kennett & Avon where I have
found a winter mooring. I'll need to do it in a couple of stages, as I
cannot take enough time off in a row from work at the moment, so I need her
to be secure so I can leave her moored for 3 / 4 days.

Thank you all for your comments, and I am sure I will be posting many more
questions in here in the future.

Best regards,

Chris

Post by Chris Houston

Post by Chris Houston
Hi,
I am just looking to buy a canal boat, that has a steel hull, but a
fibreglass sides and roof, I have
been told that this is not really a problem, other than you obviously

cannot

Post by Chris Houston
jump onto it from a lock top,
like you can a steel roof.
Apart from that, what else should I look out for when buying it?
It was made by G M Engineering if anyone has any experience with boats

made

Post by Chris Houston
by them that would
probably be useful too :)
Thanks in advance,
Chris

We have a 34 foot narrowboat 'Otter', with a fibreglass roof - built about
1970 probably Swan Line or Dart Line - and has a sandwich construction
similar to Allan's boat. We had a surveyor look at Otter before we purchased
her, so we felt we knew all the warts as well as the fine lines of the hull.
We bought her last year, so our first winter was a bit scary. Yep, it
leaked, but much less now since we refitted new wooden handrails on the roof
so the screwholes and joint are in compression rather than tension, which
really improved the situation. Anything that you can do to close holes up in
this way will probably help, especially with the help of a modern sealant.
I expect that we will get some ingress over next winter through the joint
between the hull and the roof, but my plan of action is to treat it like my
bath.. Expect it to leak at the joints, so rake out the joint on a regular
basis and reinject a sealant between the steel and the fibreglass to
minimise the leaks, mop up anything that escapes, and keep a check on the
bilges. Like Allan says, always have a mastic gun on board. A can of
Hammerite wouldn't go amiss either, as long as your aren't into pristine
paintwork.
The price we paid reflects the problem, and with a boat of this age, it
doesn't really make sense to consider replacing the roof, so we are just
cruisin' and enjoying the experience. I am contemplating adding some
additional bracing to the roof to allow the possibility of walking on it,
but realistically this will be a creative fitting job and not something you
can knock together in a few minutes. This comes third on the list after
sorting out the basics (gas lockers, electrics, etc) now largely completed
and an internal refit perhaps next year to get us from the 1970's to the
21st century - but I have to say that she works very well as she is.
Otter has been perfectly dry this summer, even with all the rain we have
had - let's not talk about the leak in the plumbing though which is nothing
to do with the fibreglass roof! We ASSUME that she may leak a bit this
winter so will pay her regular visits to check her out, and just lay her up
accordingly with lots of ventilation.We didn't buy her to live aboard, so
being dry all the time wasn't an issue for us. She doesn't have any heating
but is still very warm; other narrowboat friends who have steel-topped
cabins have commented on this.
If the price is sensible - we paid about £140 per foot and anticipate having
to spend half as much again to make her comfortable - and your surveyor says
the boat is canal worthy and she has a few years on her BSSC, I'd go for it
as long as you feel confident to do most of the maintenance yourself.
Brian Rich
NB Otter
Tardebigge Old Wharf

Chris N Deuchar

2004-10-11 09:27:50 UTC

Permalink

Post by Brian Rich
We have a 34 foot narrowboat 'Otter', with a fibreglass roof - built about
1970 probably Swan Line or Dart Line - and has a sandwich construction

<snip>

Post by Brian Rich
Anything that you can do to close holes up in
this way will probably help, especially with the help of a modern sealant.

When you really have to have a hole, seal it with Arbomast GP strip from
Adshead Ratcliffe (sp?) of Belper. This never hardens or cracks and I
have joints 20 years old (eg on portholes) which are still watertight.
It is like a rubberised version of bostick strip - but there is no
comparison in longevity.

For mastic I used to use another product from the same firm but now use
Evode's Nail & Seal. Do not confuse this with any other product with the
word 'nail' in the name. Typically this is the ONLY Evode product you
will find amongst the sealants (or adhesives) at your local DIY store.
It comes out the tube like a typical acrylic mastic but within a couple
of minutes it will start to rubberise. During this period is the only
time you will be able to smooth it off (wet finger?) as after that you
are in guano and blanket territory! Thereafter it will behave like a
silicone adhesive - note, not just a sealant - and is therefore ideal
for coping with slight movements such as you might get on a wooden
superstructure. Once it has fully gone off (surface 1 hr, fully 24hrs?)
it is very difficult to move and behaves as if it is bonded to the
surface. Nb, it even works on slightly damp surfaces - I have even
applied it in the rain in desperate circumstances!

HTH

Chris D

--
The Deuchars. Tel(work):0115 951 6264
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

Brian Rich

2004-10-11 22:13:55 UTC

Permalink

Thanks for the info about the Arbomast GP - I'll follow that up.

Brian Rich
NB Otter

Post by Chris N Deuchar

Post by Brian Rich
We have a 34 foot narrowboat 'Otter', with a fibreglass roof - built about
1970 probably Swan Line or Dart Line - and has a sandwich construction

<snip>

Post by Brian Rich
Anything that you can do to close holes up in
this way will probably help, especially with the help of a modern sealant.

When you really have to have a hole, seal it with Arbomast GP strip from
Adshead Ratcliffe (sp?) of Belper. This never hardens or cracks and I
have joints 20 years old (eg on portholes) which are still watertight.
It is like a rubberised version of bostick strip - but there is no
comparison in longevity.
For mastic I used to use another product from the same firm but now use
Evode's Nail & Seal. Do not confuse this with any other product with the
word 'nail' in the name. Typically this is the ONLY Evode product you
will find amongst the sealants (or adhesives) at your local DIY store.
It comes out the tube like a typical acrylic mastic but within a couple
of minutes it will start to rubberise. During this period is the only
time you will be able to smooth it off (wet finger?) as after that you
are in guano and blanket territory! Thereafter it will behave like a
silicone adhesive - note, not just a sealant - and is therefore ideal
for coping with slight movements such as you might get on a wooden
superstructure. Once it has fully gone off (surface 1 hr, fully 24hrs?)
it is very difficult to move and behaves as if it is bonded to the
surface. Nb, it even works on slightly damp surfaces - I have even
applied it in the rain in desperate circumstances!
HTH
Chris D
--
The Deuchars. Tel(work):0115 951 6264
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk