Narrowboat Re-paint

[Mark C]

I hope that someone may be able to help me.........

I have decided to have my boat repainted, It is a 57ft steel narrowboat
built in about 1990.
The paint on the sides is not in bad condition (lost its shine ) but the
roof and side deck antislip coating has lifted and is showing rust
underneath. There is also some minor rust under the rear portholes, where
water runs down, and a few scrapes here and there !!

I was tempted to try and patch/retouch this myself, but don`t really have
the time / space / equipment to do properly.

I need to do something before the rust really gets hold.

Anyway the questions are :- can anyone give a recommendation for a boat
painter in the Mid Cheshire (Northwich) area and could someone give me a
rough idea as to what I should be paying ?

I would like to go for a complete repaint , but may not be able to afford
this and so would it be practical to just have the roof / side deck redone?

Thanks in advance.

Mark

[Jannock]

Mark asked about repainting.

We got Jannock repainted in May 2004. As an ex-hire boat the roof and front
well had lots of rusty areas that had been repeatedly touched up but needed
treatment.
Willow Wren at Rugby did a great job of taking her back to bare metal and
then 1 primer, 2 undercoat and 2 top coats including using 2 different
grades of anti slip depending on location. The results were terrific and
well worth the money.
My one regret (there's always one ;-) was that they did not treat some of
the really rusty areas after removing all the old paint. Consequently, 2
years later, I am now having to treat small rust patches and touch up where
the original rust is reappearing again under the new paint.
Make sure your chosen painter treats your rusty areas before undercoating.

Graham
www.jannock.org.uk

[andrew]

You say "well worth the money" - could you tell us how much you paid?
It was a key part of the original poster's question.

Post by Jannock
Mark asked about repainting.
We got Jannock repainted in May 2004. As an ex-hire boat the roof and front
well had lots of rusty areas that had been repeatedly touched up but needed
treatment.
Willow Wren at Rugby did a great job of taking her back to bare metal and
then 1 primer, 2 undercoat and 2 top coats including using 2 different
grades of anti slip depending on location. The results were terrific and
well worth the money.
My one regret (there's always one ;-) was that they did not treat some of
the really rusty areas after removing all the old paint. Consequently, 2
years later, I am now having to treat small rust patches and touch up where
the original rust is reappearing again under the new paint.
Make sure your chosen painter treats your rusty areas before undercoating.
Graham
www.jannock.org.uk

[Paul Burke]

Post by andrew
You say "well worth the money" - could you tell us how much you paid?
It was a key part of the original poster's question.

We payed nearly £7000. And there are blistering spots only 3 months
later. They said it was because someone had been walking on the new
paint. We replied, where are we supposed to walk, if we can't walk on
the non- slip floor?

I won't say who did it, you never know, they might sort it out. I put
the problem down to keeping the boat for 3 months, blasting it clean,
putting on the primer, but not finding time to finish it until a week
before we were due out. We should have put them under more pressure.

Paul Burke

[z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk]

Am I allowed to mention that we paint boats to a very high standard and
, unusually I think , the work is warranted against failure of
materials or workmanship ? It`s hard to avoid advertising when people
asking about the very thing that I/we have been doing professionally
for so many years . We have a waiting list , but only as far as early
next summer ( unusually short for us I admit ) and the price for a bare
metal repaint ( all rust properly dealt with ) is around £7500.00 )
.Sorry if this is against the rules .
Cheers
phil

Post by Paul Burke

Post by andrew
You say "well worth the money" - could you tell us how much you paid?
It was a key part of the original poster's question.

We payed nearly £7000. And there are blistering spots only 3 months
later. They said it was because someone had been walking on the new
paint. We replied, where are we supposed to walk, if we can't walk on
the non- slip floor?
I won't say who did it, you never know, they might sort it out. I put
the problem down to keeping the boat for 3 months, blasting it clean,
putting on the primer, but not finding time to finish it until a week
before we were due out. We should have put them under more pressure.
Paul Burke

[Uncle Marvo]

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
Am I allowed to mention that we paint boats to a very high standard
and , unusually I think , the work is warranted against failure of
materials or workmanship ? It`s hard to avoid advertising when people
asking about the very thing that I/we have been doing professionally
for so many years . We have a waiting list , but only as far as early
next summer ( unusually short for us I admit ) and the price for a
bare metal repaint ( all rust properly dealt with ) is around
£7500.00 ) .Sorry if this is against the rules .

Can't see why it should be against the rules, but I can see no way of
getting my paws on 7500 of anything in the near future.

I like the guarantee part though. Now, would you use zinc primer, or red
oxide, or something else in order to provide this guarantee? And would you
sand down into the rust, thus reducing the thickness of the metal, or treat
it with a magic substance?

See how I did that?

[z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk]

The final stage in our removal of the paint is the linishing of the
bare metal with very coarse discs ( 36 grit ) on big grinders . The
only rust that could possibly survive that
would have to be either in a veryaccessible place or in pits . In
either case we use a wire brush attachment on a drill to get at them
and then use a rust treatment as a safety net .
We use a high build Zinc phosphate brushing primer ( 2 coats ) supplied
by my lady wife whose name appears at the top of all my contributions
to the group until I sort it out !
Cheers
phil

Post by Uncle Marvo

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
Am I allowed to mention that we paint boats to a very high standard
and , unusually I think , the work is warranted against failure of
materials or workmanship ? It`s hard to avoid advertising when people
asking about the very thing that I/we have been doing professionally
for so many years . We have a waiting list , but only as far as early
next summer ( unusually short for us I admit ) and the price for a
bare metal repaint ( all rust properly dealt with ) is around
£7500.00 ) .Sorry if this is against the rules .

Can't see why it should be against the rules, but I can see no way of
getting my paws on 7500 of anything in the near future.
I like the guarantee part though. Now, would you use zinc primer, or red
oxide, or something else in order to provide this guarantee? And would you
sand down into the rust, thus reducing the thickness of the metal, or treat
it with a magic substance?
See how I did that?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Pete C]

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
The final stage in our removal of the paint is the linishing of the
bare metal with very coarse discs ( 36 grit ) on big grinders . The
only rust that could possibly survive that
would have to be either in a veryaccessible place or in pits . In
either case we use a wire brush attachment on a drill to get at them
and then use a rust treatment as a safety net .
We use a high build Zinc phosphate brushing primer ( 2 coats ) supplied
by my lady wife whose name appears at the top of all my contributions
to the group until I sort it out !

Hi,

Do you think there is much advantage if any to using zinc rich primer
instead of zinc phosphate primer?

cheers,
Pete.

[z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk]

Hi
Any zinc rich primer should be good . Remember , being zinc rich
doesn`t mean it can`t also be described as a zinc phosphate . I just
rang one of "our" chemists to get you a definitive answer but they`re
all asleep . The sun has probably not yet penetrated the darker side of
the Pennines . If steel is well prepared all primer has to do is stick
to it , preferably with good film thickness . A tip ; If you are using
synthetic paint , which most of us do ( you clean your brush with white
spirit ) try to prime and undercoat on consecutive days i.e. prime
Monday and Tuesday , undercoat Wednesday and Thursday ( and even Friday
if you put the number of coats on that we do ) . This means you don`t
need to rub down between coats so when you do you`ve got the highest
possible build to go at .
You`ll finish up with a flatter surface and the maximum film thickness
.
When a primer is described , as ours is , as anti-corrosive it doesn`t
mean it kills rust , but that the zinc will prevent rust reappearing
where it has been properly iradicated .
Cheers
Phil

Post by Pete C

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
The final stage in our removal of the paint is the linishing of the
bare metal with very coarse discs ( 36 grit ) on big grinders . The
only rust that could possibly survive that
would have to be either in a veryaccessible place or in pits . In
either case we use a wire brush attachment on a drill to get at them
and then use a rust treatment as a safety net .
We use a high build Zinc phosphate brushing primer ( 2 coats ) supplied
by my lady wife whose name appears at the top of all my contributions
to the group until I sort it out !

Hi,
Do you think there is much advantage if any to using zinc rich primer
instead of zinc phosphate primer?
cheers,
Pete.

[Tim Leech]

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
Hi
Any zinc rich primer should be good . Remember , being zinc rich
doesn`t mean it can`t also be described as a zinc phosphate . I just
rang one of "our" chemists to get you a definitive answer but they`re
all asleep . The sun has probably not yet penetrated the darker side of
the Pennines . If steel is well prepared all primer has to do is stick
to it , preferably with good film thickness . A tip ; If you are using
synthetic paint , which most of us do ( you clean your brush with white
spirit ) try to prime and undercoat on consecutive days i.e. prime
Monday and Tuesday , undercoat Wednesday and Thursday ( and even Friday
if you put the number of coats on that we do ) . This means you don`t
need to rub down between coats so when you do you`ve got the highest
possible build to go at .
You`ll finish up with a flatter surface and the maximum film thickness
.
When a primer is described , as ours is , as anti-corrosive it doesn`t
mean it kills rust , but that the zinc will prevent rust reappearing
where it has been properly iradicated .
Cheers
Phil

<snip>

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk

Post by Pete C
Hi,
Do you think there is much advantage if any to using zinc rich primer
instead of zinc phosphate primer?
cheers,
Pete.

Phil

To me a 'zinc rich primer' could be one containing metallic zinc, such
as Galvafroid.

My experience of these is that they are brilliant at *preventing* (not
curing) rust, but
a) they're very expensive &
b) they don't always adhere well & will easily scratch off.

I don't know if there's a way of improving on (b) ?

Cheers
Tim

Dutton Dry-Dock
Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs
Vintage diesel engine service

[Pete C]

On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:52:02 +0100, Tim Leech

Post by Tim Leech
Phil
To me a 'zinc rich primer' could be one containing metallic zinc, such
as Galvafroid.
My experience of these is that they are brilliant at *preventing* (not
curing) rust, but
a) they're very expensive &
b) they don't always adhere well & will easily scratch off.
I don't know if there's a way of improving on (b) ?

Might be because they have a very high (>90%) metal content to give
conductivity for cathodic protection, so not so much resin to help
them stick to the steel. Probably very unlikely zinc phosphate primer
has this problem.

Also it appears that alkyd paints don't always stick too well to zinc
rich primers, so zinc phosphate would be a better choice here too.

Reading around it looks like the best combination to use with zinc
rich primer is with 2 part epoxy paint on top and 2 part polyureathane
on top of that, so that must give the primer good protection!

Maybe zinc rich primer is a good choice for offshore, but a bit
overkill for inland waterways, and zinc phospate primer would be best.

Though at least with zinc primer it tends to prevent any damage
spreading through rust.

cheers,
Pete.

[Pete C]

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
Hi
Any zinc rich primer should be good . Remember , being zinc rich
doesn`t mean it can`t also be described as a zinc phosphate . I just
rang one of "our" chemists to get you a definitive answer but they`re
all asleep . The sun has probably not yet penetrated the darker side of
the Pennines .

LOL! Maybe recovering after investigating the chemistry of
fermentation...

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
If steel is well prepared all primer has to do is stick
to it , preferably with good film thickness . A tip ; If you are using
synthetic paint , which most of us do ( you clean your brush with white
spirit ) try to prime and undercoat on consecutive days i.e. prime
Monday and Tuesday , undercoat Wednesday and Thursday ( and even Friday
if you put the number of coats on that we do ) . This means you don`t
need to rub down between coats so when you do you`ve got the highest
possible build to go at .
You`ll finish up with a flatter surface and the maximum film thickness

Thanks, that's very useful to know.

Post by z***@craftmasterpaints.co.uk
When a primer is described , as ours is , as anti-corrosive it doesn`t
mean it kills rust , but that the zinc will prevent rust reappearing
where it has been properly iradicated .

Sounds good.

cheers,
Pete.

[Jannock]

Andrew replied with " You say "well worth the money" - could you tell us how
much you paid? "

The total repaint inc. signwriting and VAT was just under £4k.

Graham
www.jannock.org.uk

[Andrew Instone-Cowie]

Post by Mark C
Anyway the questions are :- can anyone give a recommendation for a boat
painter in the Mid Cheshire (Northwich) area and could someone give me a
rough idea as to what I should be paying ?

You could try Steve Gorton ("The Paint Shed" at Anderton) - 07748
256018. He gets pretty booked up though - we're booked in for July 2007.

HTH
Andrew

[Ron Jones]

Post by Mark C
I hope that someone may be able to help me.........
I have decided to have my boat repainted, It is a 57ft steel
narrowboat built in about 1990.
The paint on the sides is not in bad condition (lost its shine ) but
the roof and side deck antislip coating has lifted and is showing rust
underneath. There is also some minor rust under the rear portholes,
where water runs down, and a few scrapes here and there !!
I was tempted to try and patch/retouch this myself, but don`t really
have the time / space / equipment to do properly.
I need to do something before the rust really gets hold.
Anyway the questions are :- can anyone give a recommendation for a
boat painter in the Mid Cheshire (Northwich) area and could someone
give me a rough idea as to what I should be paying ?
I would like to go for a complete repaint , but may not be able to
afford this and so would it be practical to just have the roof / side
deck redone?

ISTR boats being painted in the dry dock at Whixall - they don't do d-i-y,
so it has to be the marina painting it for someone else.